Thursday, March 03, 2005

If I turned 17 today.

My son's 17th birthday is today. He's thinking about girls he likes, the money he got for his birthday, prom and his x-box. I'm his crazy liberal, progressive, peace loving mother, and I am thinking about his life.

How very short it might be. All the things he might never get do.

He told me today he's joining the Marines.

You see, someone came to his school and told him he can get the money his father and I can't give him for college, for an education, for his future. They never told him he could die. It's like Nintendo they said .. (only you die.. that's what they didn't say) . How do you tell a teenager that we are at war and it is not a video game? There are no cheat codes and no extra lives. Did you listen to your mom when you turned 17?

34 Comments:

At 3/04/2005 8:37 AM , Blogger Right On! said...

I don't know about you, but even in my 17 year old "I'm smarter than my parents" stage I still knew what the consequences of my actions were. Of COURSE they don't publish death as a marketing tool of the Marines, it's a GIVEN that if you're in the armed forces and go to war, you COULD die, even my 9 year old sister knows THAT. If you offer monetary incentives and allow them the ability to acheive something (college) they normally would not be able to do, they'll sign up. What do you want them to do, put up a sign "Join the Marines and POSSIBLY DIE", yeah I can see that line stretching around the block now...

I feel sorry for you and your son if he is so jaded by his X-Box that he thinks he has 9 lives. Maybe he should have put down the controller and joind the reality crowd a little more.

 
At 3/04/2005 8:55 AM , Blogger KyndCulture said...

Fuck you, first of all.

Secondly, you missed the point ENTIRELY. The point is not the video games you dumb troll shit. The point is that kids feel invincible and the recruiters are preying on that.

 
At 3/04/2005 9:05 AM , Blogger Right On! said...

Nice to see we can control our maturity. I see we lack the restraint in the profanity department. I know kids feel invincible, but what I was telling you was when "I" was 17 I thought I was invincible, but I knew the consequences of war. The way you phrased your portrayal of your son, was that he thought that they would write him a check and hand him a bag of quarters for some 'extra lives'. If that's true, he needs to lay off the video games. Seriously.

 
At 3/04/2005 9:08 AM , Blogger srt said...

First let me say I get what you're feeling about this. As a parent, there are times when our children's lives can be the most terrifying events we go through.

Second, if it were me, I would rent "Platoon" and "Full Metal Jacket" and somehow make him watch both and discuss what the message is. Or find a chapter of VietNam vets to visit and ask them just how amusing and fun the war was. He's still 17 so you have some leverage left.

Third, we as a culture need to get past this ultimately stupid link between war and patriotism and romance. This is the tool that has been used to sell young men into carnage for too many generations and it has to stop!

 
At 3/04/2005 9:13 AM , Blogger Ole Blue The Heretic said...

I am a former Army guy and I think that your son needs to talk to a grizzled combat vet about military life. Most civilians, and that is most not all, have no clue as to what military life entails. Also, it has been my experience that young adults still in their teen years tend to have a romanticized view of the military. It is not necessarily from Movies or TV but is more due to the idealistic minds that young adults tend to have.

Also, most forget about the military a few months after the recruiter has talked to them.

 
At 3/04/2005 9:18 AM , Blogger srt said...

Normally I wouldn't take the time to comment on a comment but this right on! character is beyond the pale.

What I heard in the original post was the anguish of a parent who sees their child straying into dangerous territory and being encouraged by a dishonest and glamorous portrayal of what lies there.

The idea that right on! or any other 17 year old fully comprehends the consequences of war is absurd in the extreme! Most of the citizens of this country have no idea what those consequences are. If they did, the war option would be much farther down the list than it is.

right on!'s immediate jab at "maturity", as if an emotional use of an expletive somehow was indicative of same is a typical right-wing, arrogant put down. Given that KyndCulture is the mother of the 17 year old in question, I thought "Fuck You" was rather restrained.

Permit me to join you, KyndCulture in saying to this pre-programmed, non-thinker - Fuck You!

 
At 3/04/2005 9:20 AM , Blogger KyndCulture said...

Blue, thank you for the post. His father is a vet. That's part of the problem, however his father served in a time of peace.

I've said what I can say to him about it, I've shown him every picture I could find on the net of Iraq. No dice. We are a poor family that would never be able to afford college, so I know that's where his head is at.

Right on, guess what you posted on my blog. That gives me the right to say whatever I want to say to you. If you don't like it, leave. It's really simple. You are still missing the point. You obviously do not have teenage children. Why do you think the incidents of car accidents are so high among teens? They all have the "it can't happen to me" feeling of invinciblity. It's not about the video games, obviously analogy is lost on you.

This post is also about what the recruiters are saying to the kids, and how young they are visiting them in school. My daughter's school has already had a recruiter visit and she's only 12. The more desperate this situation becomes, the more desperate the recruiters are becoming. They dangled $10,000 in front of my kid. That's a fortune to him.

 
At 3/04/2005 9:27 AM , Blogger KyndCulture said...

srt - you rock. Thank you. That is exactly what this person is doing.. he didn't read the post, or understand it's meaning...This is about this glamor and money the recruiters are throwing at our children. Not just my child, everyone's children. They are preying on them. It's a psychological game. They promised him the career in animation that he desperately wants and we cannot afford to give him. They glamorized the military and out right lied to him. The worse the war is getting, the more these bastards are preying on our children. I think miliary service is honorable, don't get me wrong. But I think it's unconcionable to lie to a child about what it actually means.

 
At 3/04/2005 9:35 AM , Blogger srt said...

KyndCulture - I absolutely agree - Every year, when the Army parks their Apache Helicopter on the local High School football field and spends the day exploiting the fantasies of little boys, I get sick to my stomach.

If drug pushers or car salesman or anyone else used these kind of tactics to sell out kids things, there would be a huge outcry. Since it's the military and we've all got to be "patriotic" it's just accepted.

It should not be accepted. It should be stopped.

Good Luck!

 
At 3/04/2005 9:43 AM , Blogger Right On! said...

Having a background in advertising, I can tell you, you NEVER EVER mention anything negative about the product you are selling. What the recruiter is doing is selling the military to your child and it is within his rights to do so. If I'm selling you a sofa, I'm not going to tell you that after three months of use, the coil spring will pop out and impale you in the butt, I'm going to paint a wonderful picture for you and get that sofa out the door. It's a given that military service carries with it, the risk of war and death.

If I was hired by the military or ANYONE to advertise their product and I made an add "This can KILL YOU", they'd fire me on the spot and possible sue me for loss of revenue and damages.

If your son joines the Marines, I salute him for his service to his country. If he's going for the money, you DO need to wake him up.

 
At 3/04/2005 9:54 AM , Blogger srt said...

Well, I'm probably taking bait here but so be it.

right on! - your equating of military service to buying a couch shows us just how truly limited a thinker you are. If you really think that military service in a time of war is just another consumer decision, you are one sick puppy.

When I was 17, the military was very much engaged in lying to young people in order to 'make the sale'. The most common promise at that time was 'if you enlist, we'll see to it that you get stationed in Germany.' I can't tell you how many guys I knew that took that bait and found themselves on a fast track to VietNam.

You're right about one thing, recruiters are salespeople. As such, we allow them to exagerate, gloss over and outright lie about the 'product'. This is sick!

As a culture, we need to get past this stupid, romantic, idealized concept of service and war. The power elite do not want us to see the truth because then they would have no ready source of fodder for thier corrupt, greedy power grabs.

Until we wise up, as a people, this crap will continue.

The truth is: Recruiters lie! War is not a game! Service is not a product!

 
At 3/04/2005 10:02 AM , Blogger Right On! said...

I didn't mean to equate going to war with buying a sofa, I was making the reference to a sales perspective.

I know war is hell, and I know people lie, but you're delusional if you think we as a society will overcome 'lying'. You said it yourself, recruiters are salesmen, it is their JOB to do what they can to get people into the military. Lying to do so is not a valiant trait, but I'm not going to condemn the military for the actions of their recruiters.

 
At 3/04/2005 10:11 AM , Blogger srt said...

I don't think we will overcome lying. However, I don't think that blindly accepting it as the norm is healthy.

I agree with you on one point, namely that recruiters are salespeople.

Where I disagree with you is in accepting that fact as either inevitable or acceptable.

Without strong opposition, the status quo rolls on and devours anything in it's path!

This thread originally grew out of one person's anguish at seeing a child they had nurtured, loved and sacrificed for being misled onto a path that could easily result in disaster.

Questioning our role, as a society, in that misleading is a moral obligation!

 
At 3/04/2005 10:13 AM , Blogger WarriorForTheMostHigh said...

Before reading my reply, I ask that you read it with an open mind, and not give a reaction immediately. With this disclaimer done...

I'm curious at the underly reason for this. You have shown a great sense of protection for your son, as any mother should. But my question is, is it the fact that he's choosing to go into the military the problem, or is it the fact that he wants to make a large decision for his life that he chose not to filter through you? I see a little of both, and I'm not going to take either side, but try to explain them.

Your side: Your son is making a decision to where he could very well end up dead, and you don't want that happening. You feel as if he isn't thinking of the consequences, and you've done your best to make him do so but alas his mind isn't changing. You realize that he is growing up into a man, but you feel that this is one decision that is not a path he needs to go down.

His side: He's growing up and needs to start making some decisions about his future, many of which he will not ask your permission for. He's thinking of college, and since he see's no easy way of doing it he has decided to join and fight for his country so he can obtain his goal. I think he knows very well what war means, as our media paints a very vivid picture and focuses on the tragedy rather than the good things that are going on. He is a man and he longs to be a part of some sort of action, to fuel his desire for something more than what he is experiencing right now.

Just so you know, I'm not in the military and not someone that wants to either. I am a 25 year old male in college, and I feel that any situation is worth looking at both sides of the arguement, and requires truthfully listening to each other. Try this: when your son gets home today you and your husband take him out and truthfully find out what his side of this is. See what he's passionate about, and see if both of your ideas can come together.

 
At 3/04/2005 10:28 AM , Blogger srt said...

WarriorForTheMostHigh:
Your basic point has some value – specifically, I like the part about talking through what the son’s vision is and looking at alternative ways for getting there.

However, I must take issue with several of your supporting points. Specifically the idea that the media “paints a very vivid picture” of war. That is utter nonsense. I can’t remember the last time I saw a wounded or dead U.S. soldier pictured in the media. In fact, wounded or dead Iraqi’s are hardly visible. We do see a lot of streets littered with glass and an occasional blood stain but for the most part what we see is Martha Stewart and Michael Jackson.

The other thing I must take issue with is your assumption that a 17 year old is fully equipped to deal with the onslaught of BS that is thrown at them by legions of professional manipulators. There is virtually no way that someone that age can possibly have the sophisticated viewpoint necessary to make such a serious decision.

One final thought for KyndCulture, I really do like this person’s idea of exploring what your son really wants. I would also stress to him that there are lots of ways to pay for college. Many of us did it later in life, part time and paid our own way. The Army’s “guarantee” of a career in animation is total BS. I’m sure you could find somewhere in the fine print a disclaimer that says that whatever a recruiter says is not binding on the Army.

 
At 3/04/2005 3:52 PM , Blogger Michael Moore-on said...

Kynd, first you're full of shit, NO recruiter told him it was like a video game, you only said that for effect and you know it. Second, if your son believes such nonsense, you're mostly to blame. Third, could it be possibe that your son simply wants to serve his country as I and countless millions have already done?

 
At 3/04/2005 3:59 PM , Blogger WarriorForTheMostHigh said...

Michael, how does that help the situation? It seems to me that you're more interested in throwing fuel on the fire than trying to help her.

 
At 3/04/2005 5:06 PM , Blogger Bogus News and World Distort said...

First of all, some of yall are being dicks to a nice person who loves her son. What's your problem?
If you're so miserable that you troll blogs to be an ass and move on, please do America a favor...
turn Rush off and swallow a bottle of Oxycontin! You won't be missed!

As a former Marine I can tell you this, our boys over there dying are NOT dying for fucks like you! Likewise, those boys have mothers too who feel the same way Kynd does!

Over 1,500 of these moms have realized, first hand, Kynd's biggest fears and I bet they like to choke the shit out of you two.

Oh, and Micheal Moore-on; one of the mom's name is Lila Lipscomb from Flynt and if you got your head out of yours, Rush's and Bush's ass and watched Fahrenheit 9/11 you'd see what that pain looks like, dick.

Yall need to "join the reality crowd a little more" and realize some shit and quickly. Obviously none of you little shits ever served a day much less fired a shot in anger. Chickenhawks one and all and if it wasn't for dickheads like you we wouldn't be having this problem.

This is the result of your ignorant asses and its fuckin' shame this can't happen to you!
http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/wounded/gallery.htm

Good thing the net is anonymous because I bet you wouldn't have the courage to say what you say much less serve the Nation you love so much and have never served but enjoy as if YOU contributed something. So, bitches, that Oxycontin is waiting for you to finally serve your country!

 
At 3/04/2005 6:22 PM , Blogger Michael Moore-on said...

sensii, pull your head out of your ass. Not that I doubt you were EVER a Marine, that aside, take your foolish indignancy and peddle it elswhere. Your morphing of what I said and why into something it's not doesn't pass the "straight face" test. Nice try.

 
At 3/04/2005 11:23 PM , Blogger Sue Raging Roz said...

I gotta wonder why anyone would stoop so low as to troll a blog entry that was based on someone's personal story and heartache...

I gotta wonder what is going on in that person's head...

 
At 3/04/2005 11:39 PM , Blogger Bogus News and World Distort said...

Moron-
I "was" her son over 10 years ago and unlike any of you, I joined the Marines because I wanted combat. Well I got what I wanted and it wasn't what I thought it was because all I had seen are MOVIES and that's all a 17 year old knows. That's all you two, Rush, Anti Christ Bush and the others know about combat is from the TV. You haven't smelled burning flesh or week old dead bodies or seen dead babies and crushed skulls with splattered brains so you don't know anymore than a 17 year old. It is them shooting back and hitting you and your buddies that NO ONE can understand from a TV screen because combat is 3- dimensional and all 6 senses, yeah I said ALL 6 senses, are operating in overdrive. That 6th sense is aquired under conditions like combat which can lead to PTSD.
The difference is I identify with her and share in her concerns so I came to show my love as I have on another site. You and right-wrong posted to show your asses and to make yourselves feel superior somehow; but you know what everyone who reads this knows about you that your words dont say?
First, you need to either come out of the closet or go buy yourself some because your source of misery makes you an ass. Second, obviously you were never taught that if you don't have something nice to say then don't say anything at all. And finally, you're just another example of those who weren't patriotic enough to serve when you were 17 but now, all of the sudden, you're conveniently Mr. Super Patriot when patriotism is the "in" thing after an attack and have somehow earned the right to insult a mother of a future Marine. Kynd was ROTC and almost served herself but she had a little boy instead. Kynd knows more about service than you.
This is Kynd's blog so I won't take up anymore space, but, if you don't believe I served my blog is hypocrisyofourdemocracy on this site (just got it) and we can chat later. YOU can come to Dallas and inspect my USMC tattoos, my scars, DD214 and my old uniforms if you'd like.
A real patriot loves their country all of the time and their government when it deserves it.
(Sorry Kynd, I had to give my 2 cents; love ya!)

 
At 3/05/2005 7:46 AM , Blogger KyndCulture said...

Moron,

I'm gonna say this very simply. You are not welcome on this blog any longer. You troll every post, by every member of this staff. This is not goddamn CNN, you don't seem to understand. We've let you post here because WE allowed it. I don't want you posting here, neither does any other member of this staff. You provide nothing. This is not a game as you seem to think it is.

What you said to me didn't surprise me in the least. I've read your swill for months, so has everyone else. You have NEVER posted anything productive on this blog. You don't try to make a case for your right wing bullshit, you simply come in and make your small-brained self try to feel superior to us. Well, I hope you had fun.

And as they say in the video game world.

GAME OVER MOTHERFUCKER.

 
At 3/05/2005 8:31 AM , Blogger KyndCulture said...

And to Sensi and everyone besides Lib Pats resident bottom feeding, small-dicked weasel trolls...

Thank you. The only way to find out the truth is to talk to people who've experienced it. I don't want to hear any of the top 10 right wing vomit points on this subject.

I'm to "blame" for a lot of things where my son is concerned. His blonde hair, his blue eyes, his height, his artistic and musical abilities, the fact that he treats all women with respect, his continued straight A's in school, his love for animals, his love for this country, his love for his family.

I will take the blame for somethings with my child, he's a little over sensitive, he can be a whole lot rebellous, he prefers to play on the computer than go outside and get exercise and he's an expert at finding internet porn.

I am NOT to "blame" for his glorification of war, combat, the military and his skewed sense of patriotism. No, that one's not me, that's the next door neighbors with the yellow ribbons on the SUV, it's the TV, the right wing teachers at his school who refuse to shut their fucking mouths about ra ra Bush. It's the newspapers that print stories about killing the bad arabs..It's the lame history books that the public school have that don't even go as far as Viet Nam. It's the scars from being 12 years old on September 11th and being inundated with a tragedy he didn't have the capacity to understand.

 
At 3/05/2005 9:46 AM , Blogger Right On! said...

Wow, for a mother, you've got quite a mouth on you. I'd be ashamed if I read what you've posted in response to several of these comments if I was your son. There's a nice way to disagree, then there's just a plain ignorant way. Cussing at people doesn't make them think you're any more right or wrong, you just end up looking ignorant.

To sensi:
"This is the result of your ignorant asses and its fuckin' shame this can't happen to you!
http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/wounded/gallery.htm"

You go on and on about how sick we are, but something must have broken in your brain when you DID serve this great country. It's one thing to dislike someone, and it's a different thing entirely to wish harm upon others just for the sake of wishing it. So what if we disagree with you, life goes on. You need some mental attention if you can't just agree to disagree.

 
At 3/05/2005 10:13 AM , Blogger ProgressivePatriot said...

Moore-on....having a bad week?? I've warned you about attacking people with derogatory spew.
Also, I have on my computer a video game called "America's Army" that is distributed by the US Army and the US Army alone. You can't buy it in a store or order it online. You MUST get it from the Army recruiter.

RightOn....Sensi uses the link as a way to show you that most right-wingers, especially the criminal cowards in Washington, have none of the nerve to serve their country. You and your people are pushing this country to civil war....and if it comes I, personally, want to see the streets of America filled with dead Bush supporters. It is our responsibility to defend our country from enemies foreign and domestic. If you are a Bush supporter you are complicit in the crimes against this country and for that you should be treated like any other who has committed treason: Death.

 
At 3/05/2005 11:17 AM , Blogger Right On! said...

You're a sick sick man.

Honestly, for someone who claims to love his country, you need SERIOUS help.

I disagree with about 200% of what you say but I do NOT and never will, wish that a political party be wiped from the face of this country. I don't care if you live in Alabama, Massachusetts or next door.

The very fact that you are so violently opposed to a difference of opinion tells me that you have some deep rooted psycological insecurities. You're hardly a patriot. I would classify your ideology under zealousness.

Sure there is a rift in the current political state of this country, but if your only solution to solving it is by KILLING your opposition, you're no better than Osama Bin Laden or any other scum on this planet.

 
At 3/05/2005 11:37 AM , Blogger ProgressivePatriot said...

I don't need help fool....you do. Open your eyes.
Isn't little bushitler killing his opposition all around the world?? Well, you and your supporters are viewed no differently by Americans, like myself, who realize that the enemy is at our gates.

You and your ilk are the sick ones....

 
At 3/05/2005 12:50 PM , Blogger TAYLOR said...

I was directed to this site by RightOn, who is defintely not the right wing extremist some of you make him out to be. Neither am I by the way, if you read my blog, you'll see that I am actually a very centrist Republican. That being said, I can defintely understand kyndculture and the anxiety she has for her son. But even in anger I think one can debate politely and not curse out someone trying to make a point. Sensi I thank you for your service to our nation. And I do not know what a real war situation is like. That being said, the military recruits volunteers. Yes they may hide some of the realities of military life to get those recruits. But I am sure kyndculture's son is aware of the consequences of joining the military. I don't think any straight A student does not know that joining the military might mean death or serious injury. But we all have to choose our paths in life.

 
At 3/05/2005 1:23 PM , Blogger Bogus News and World Distort said...

Right- wrong,
I can agree to disagree. I cannot tolerate someone being a complete jerk and insulting someone nice; your mother should have taught you better than that but I guess you're showing your "family values", huh?
You bet your ass I wish this type of harm on you, one of your friends or family. If this horror EVER touched you in some way you'd have a totally different opinion on war and that's the problem.
Too many jerks like you had vaginitis or whatever that kept you from growing a pair when your actions, not your words, would have shown your patriotism but your "love of self" was more of an influence than your Nation.
Yeah, there's something wrong with my mental state; I've been in combat genious! I know why war sucks and I didn't learn that on TV. If you and the other Nazi wimps had answered the call of duty you'd feel the same way!
There's still hope for you yet! Your Fuhrer isn't protecting our ports or borders so maybe the next terrorist attack will effect you and show you a horror that you can't imagine; a horror like combat. Your greedy little tax cuts are underfunding our ports and border security and underfunding police. SO, when people are dead (God forbid) I hope you go buy yourself something nice and I hope it makes you happy that your new toy is soaked in the blood of your countrymen. God forbid this happen, but you selfish, greedy, apathetic and self- centered fascists are to blame because you love yourself way more than you'll ever love this Nation. Your greed at the expense of your countrymen is a far greater enemy than Bin Laden and your support of Anti Christ Bush will take more lives than Bin Laden's wettest dreams.
"What you are DOING speaks so loudly that I can hear a word you SAY"!
Kynd, sweetie, now you know these fascists don't like "opinionated" women! ;o) Don't you know you're suppose to be a "Stepford Wife"; barefoot, pregnant and silent in the kitchen! Amazing how in 5 years we've gone back to the 1950s mentality; Macarthyism has definately returned. Hey right- wrong, do you want Kynd to go put on her burka and bake you a pie?

note: Isn't it amazing how Falwell and the Religious Reich preached against American women's rights in the 1970s when Carter was President (the first Evangelical President, BTW) and conveniently show even more hypocrisy in 2004 by supporting women's rights in Iraq and Afghanistan to support Anti Christ Bush?
Reich- wing guys: burkas are on sale at Macy's today with all of the colors you wife likes so go ahead and suprise her! They also have shock collars and you can wire it up to keep her inside the house! Why not pee on her and mark your territory while your at it. Also, since you think women shouldn't work; save the college tuition for your daughters. Why should she waste time on chemistry classes when all she needs to know is how to bake? Instead of an education, which she won't need anyway according to your beliefs, send your little girl to Ron Jeremy's sex school so she can learn to do all of the freaky things her husband will desire. Prepare your conservative daughters for the life you want for her, a lifetime of obedience and servatude to her husband. For you who have sons, Ike Turner has a class to teach good conservative males how to keep their women in- line.
American Taliban... "if the shoe fits"...

 
At 3/05/2005 1:40 PM , Blogger flatford39 said...

Kynd,

Can you take him to a VA hospital in the area????? Not to put the vets on display but they will tell him the truth. Some will support you and some will support him. It may be good for both of you. I suspect what he will see is that the younger disabled will be on his side and the older will side with you.

Regardless,my best to you and I hope he reconsiders. Good Luck.

 
At 3/05/2005 3:33 PM , Blogger Bogus News and World Distort said...

taylor,
Thanks for your very cordial post! The civility you display makes you one of the good guys even if we may not agree on everything. I'd be proud to call you a friend. My Mom always said, "you get farther with sugar then you do with shit".

Respectfully, I must disagree about any 17 year old comprehending the full depth of combat. A 17 year old doesn't really grasp college life before they experience it themselves and combat is sooo much different. Surely you see my point. 17 year olds are "10 feet tall and bullet proof" in their minds and they may know war is happening but it really won't sink in until the "snap" of the first round whizzing past you sinks in and you want to crawl under a rock. Wounds on TV are much different than a wound to someone you know and love like a fellow Marine.
Fortunately for me, when I was deployed, Pres. Clinton really did have a huge coalition (not 135,000 US and 2,700 "coalition" troops) and excellent planning and we lost not one Marine. Myself and 2 others got hit but that's as bad as we had it. The ENTIRE world was with us then and it really makes a difference in the minds of indiginous personnel. We also HAD ENOUGH TROOPS! Seriously, all partisanship aside, common sense asks why WOULD someone not listen to Gen Shinseki and skimp on manpower? We had 500,000 boots in Desert Storm, a very low casualty rate, and we DIDN'T take over Iraq and occupy it for years; why 135,000 troops for an occupation and not 500,000 when we liberated another Arab country 1/4 of Iraq's size without all of the controversy?
Do you know how many post- combat casualties the US had in occupations of Germany and Japan after WWII, Bosnia, Haiti and Kosovo COMBINED? Zero.

A little planning helps don't it?
You support the troops in your actions when you make their difficult job easier which, sadly, isn't the case in Iraq and that is Kynd's and my concern about her son.
Liberals don't just dislike this war because of the WMD lies and we sincerely pray that Dubya can get Iraq to be a nice place again. More Dems have sent men into combat than Republicans in US history, so despite the talking point, history show's we're strong on defense. Pres. Clinton deployed more forces to combat zones than anyone since WWII until now. We dislike our sons and daughters getting mamed and killed, stop- lossed, over- deployed, extended and deployed on the cheap which exposes them to unnecessary danger.

Not only is her son mistaken that there is some glory in war, many on the right and of all ages are as well gravely misinformed. This isn't a WWII movie, this is real and you can't press pause when things get ugly or leave that reality after the movie ends and go cook dinner. You can cry when Danny dies in the movie Pearl Harbor but 2 days later you don't feel that in your bones but in real life you feel it 50 years later. There are very few WWII vets left but ask one if their time in theater was as "romantic" as Pearl Harbor, Saving Private Ryan or the Memphis Belle? Most won't talk about it and some will break down in tears.

There's no honor in death, only death. How "romantic" is it to have a folded flag zipped in plastic, a $12,000 check, a letter and a hunk of marble at Arlington Cemetary to replace your loved one? How many girls will want her son if he gets mamed like some of our boys in the link above?
Would you go to Walter Reed Medical Center and tell one of your "heros" that they should have known what could happen, its a "volunteer army" and they should have put the X-Box down and realized war isn't a video game? Eh, right- wrong? Maybe you should so the victims of the incompetent and arrogant policies you support could literally share their pain with you. Perhaps if someone beat you within an inch of your life, as what's happened to them, you'd gain a new perspective on why you're a misguided, insensative prick who disrespects those who defend you with your braindead comments. Tell them you were ugly to the mother of a future Marine and see how much they like you or Moron!
How many families of fallen veterans does your yellow ribbon feed?
Do you realize how many military family programs and veteran's benefits are cut in half for you to have your tax cut?
Does it bother you that the wives and kids of your heros are on food stamps?
How far do you think a $12,000 death benefit check will go to provide for a family who lost their main income source?
Do "family values" include expecting families of Guard and Reservists to take a $10,000 or more annual pay cut because they're deployed endlessly due to poor planning? Oops, they "volunteered" for that, right?
How about you and other Bush supporters take a $10K pay cut and donate that and your tax cut to the families of your heros to "liberate" them or does your patriotism have limits?
Will you teach someone's kid to throw a baseball, walk their daughter down the aisle, or be a father- figure to them?
Oh, my bad they "volunteered" to be poor to defend your right to be wealthy and they spent too much time on the X-Box to be able to understand real military life and what COULD happen.
If yall are SOOO patriotic, not you taylor because you're cool, but ask your beloved Fuhrer why there are more cops in Mahatten than there were troops ever looking for Bin Laden; remember him, the guy who DID attack us? Oh, my bad, Condi said "he's been marginalized" and Bush said "I don't think about him anymore". What happened to "dead or alive"?
Don't yall think a real patriot would at least ask why Bin Laden is out producing more vidoes than MTV?

Normally, service in the Corps is a tough but wonderful experience. Kynd's son can choose to serve "voluntarily" but he can't choose to be deployed with an excellent plan under good leadership. He can't even vote yet but he can sign his life away on the dotted line to become a pawn, cannon- fodder, in our quest for strategic interests. A patriot doesn't goose- step to the slaughter of their countrymen and not demand a correction; your patriotism is bound to the worship of George W Bush but your hypocrisy is without limits.
War is old men talking and young men dying and when the dying gets out of hand then you have to wonder and question what the old men are saying, or at least, a TRUE patriot would.

 
At 3/05/2005 3:35 PM , Blogger kellifitzgerald said...

The first thing you need to do is to abolish the part of the Patrriot Act which allows these military cult leaders to brainwash teenage kids. Make it perfectly clear that the mission of the public and private educational system is to create good citiznes--not good soliders. The next thing we do is make a slight change in the law. A Constitutional Amendment which would ban recruitment officers from both public and private institutions of education except for miliarty schools and which would limit their unique brand of proselytization to televised advertisements. Kids at this are are unusually open to this kind of influence.

I would also create a law which would give parents, legal guardians, or other close relatives the right to terminate any agreement between the military and recuited youth on the grounds that most kids this are are too impressionable. Think of it as a family values issue. The right to keep your family members alive.

Failing that I would arrange for every school which allows recurit officers on its property to have anti recruitment individuals sitting right next to them with pictures of maimed and wounded soldiers. If the military really believes in American freedoms then they'll shut to hell up and accept the fact that they have competition. And if they whine and complain about competition from anti war individuals then they're living proof that the GOP dominated Military does NOT give a whoop in hell about the Constitution nor the fredoms which they claim the military wants to protect.

Of course I could be a little prejudiced about this. Some of us out here have loved one who are going through living hells as a result of the mess of choice that Bush started in Iraq. And we're kind of funny that way--we don't reward organizations which turn our loved ones into emotional and physical basket cases.

 
At 3/05/2005 9:35 PM , Blogger WarriorForTheMostHigh said...

Ok... this conversation (although I can say I'm not suprised) has turned from a Mom's quarrel with her son to Conservative Republicans verses Liberal Democrats. I just love how yall (each one of you) twisted your political ideologies into this woman's initial problem, to where if anyone even tried to get you guys back on track it wouldn't work. Both sides speak about having your head up certain people's asses, but what I see from both sides is a refusal to even acknowledge anything that might be contrary to what you have heard. Much of what has been said here is a repeat of of some extremist (on both sides) calling someone this, and blaming them for that. Yes, this nation is setup where we should have a voice in what our government is doing, but running the race like a racehorse with blinders on is about the stupidest thing I've seen. That's why I really refuse to choose either side of the arguements. News channels that say they are unbiased definately aren't (CNN, CNBC, and Fox News), and even local news you are fed political bullshit. I love how you guy roasted me earlier for saying that I was wrong saying that news paint a more vivid picture than ever before, yet you use websites and stuff to prove your point. Hello! Same thing! But seriously, think back to WW1, WW2, The Korean War, or Vietnam, and imagine if the media was as developed back then as it is today. Opinions would flare higher than just some peace loving hippies in the 60's. Our media has a huge impact on our lives. What President Bush has done I see is a reactionary thing. Even as a Christian I see for every action there is a reaction, and it's the reaction that makes us human. Now some decisions might not have been the best, but my commander and chief has my full support, no matter who is in the White House.

And now... please let a new topic begin because this one is so far off the original it's unsaveable.

 
At 3/05/2005 9:58 PM , Blogger Right On! said...

"you get farther with sugar then you do with shit"

Couldn't agree more. Funny how it only works here if it comes from someone with the same opinions, but hey, to each his own.

I don't use vulgar forms of communication, I don't insult or name call. I am not a 'right winger' like many here would think, in FACT, I'm sure if we had a conversation in public, we'd probably agree on a lot of comments, I am, like Taylor said, NOT as right wing as one would think. If you wish to resort to stereotyping and name calling, then so be it... I was expressing an opinion that was not all too popular here and I knew that when expressing it, so I'm not all that suprised by some of the responses I received.

I just find it ironic that when a "right winger" tells someone "you get farther with sugar then you do with shit" it's insulting. I guess that's what you get around here if you have a dissenting opinion.

Thanks for the insightful commentary.

 

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